the fact that president george w. bush said the worst moment of his presidency was when kanye west suggested that he was racist, there's a part of me that likes that. i like the idea that people find racism bad. and they don't want to be associated with it. right? on the one hand that is progress. there was much of american history where people were like, yep, i'm a racist. that's happening at the same time we get this narrative. >> that's the importance of having the conversation about race. the complexity is that we've made so much progress in this country, that it isn't acceptable to be racist. and that as a result, so many people aren't consciously racist. right? and at the same time, because we have our first black president, it's also brought up some of the overt stuff. so like post-2008, after obama's elected, white supremacist websites started crashing because of the increased traffic to white supremacist sites. that's over at racism. at the same time, the danger in not talking about race is that for the major